7th ed - Cut n Paste

[emil]

Mer eller mindre verifierade förändringar m.m.

1- no weapon changes except for great weapons mounted , which are only +1 strength,and pistols NO OTHER WEAPON RULES HAVE BEEN CHANGED

3- iirc hand weapon and sheild rule is for everyone, fast calvary still negate rank bonus afaik

4- magic works like this. for power dice theres the common pool, which everyone can use,then each wizard gets his own power dice only he can use.

6- for dispel dice 2 basic, if your dwarves you get +2, and then the rest was the same.

7-the miscast table is nasty, on a 2 the wizard dies and everyone in base contact gets a strenth 10 hit, basically the wizard gets grabbed by a giant clawed hand that comes out of a warp thing, on iirc a ten nthe wizard looses a power level and a spell( the one he tried to cast) on a 12 he casts the spell with IF, but looses i

8- magic lores have changed a bit, for exanple the took out father of thorns for a spell that restores all wounds on a target model.

Units
- Characters & command can now go anywhere in the front rank. (source: Calculon)
I think this was the case didnt read it too carefully. I noticed champions can move around in a unit like chars if they are stuck not fighting in combat.
Movement
- Charge/flee direction has been clarified properly. Basically draw a line between the units and charge/flee along that line.

I only read the section on fleeing from a charge and that worked as you stated

-- All units can now be march blocked (except flyers who don't march anyway). (source: Calculon)

I looked a skirmishers and didnt see any exceptions to the march block rule.





[- Units apparently still automatically break if defeated by a Fear causing enemy that outnumbers them (apart from a double 1, as above) (source: Shoggoth)
yes I read the double one thing in the fear rules. you also add all the models from both sides to determine outnumbering by fear causers

-
Weapons
- The "parry" rule (hand weapon + shield when on foot gives an additional +1 to your army save) stays as it currently is. This is contrary to some previous rumours. (source: Calculon)
UPDATE: Then again it might not work against enemies fighting to your side or rear. (source: Shoggoth)
the parry rule was the same. not sure about the flank or rear part though

-Great weapons only add +1 Strength when the user is mounted. When the user is on foot it's +2 Strength as it is now. (source: Calculon)

yup

- No other weapons appear to be altered.

yup

Cavalry
- Fast cavalry may lose the ability to negate ranks when charging enemy units in the flank or rear (source: Calculon) and then again they may not (source: Shoggoth)

here is no mention whatsoever in the marching rules and the skirmishers rules ragarding skirmishers being granted an exception over other units in regards to march moves.

You only get the +1 save bonus for hand weapon and shield against opponents in front of you.

Great weapon rules for models on foot are the same, for mounted models, the bonus is reduced to +1 str.

My buddy read that models equipped with pistols may always stand and shoot and that braces of pistols gain multiple shot x 2.

Fast cavalry gain a special ability that lets them rally automatically when they choose flee as a charge reaction.

Power dice generated by a mage's magic level can only be used by that wizard. All other power dice, including the 2 basic power dice and the power dice generated by magic items and special abilities are in the communal pool and can be used by all mages in the army.

The range for panic tests has been unified to 6 inches.

When charging, you must wheel to bring as many models as possible from both sides into the fight.

I didn't see any apparent change in charge rules for cavalry and chariots.


From GAV
Some points to make at this juncture to head off some expectations (or create some!).

1. There will not be pages and pages of FAQs with the new Warhammer as he have tried everything in our power to ensure that no contradictions between the rulebook and the army books have been created by changes. This has meant that we have not included some changes we might have done in order not to clash with army books references or examples.

2. Any such clashes that we have missed will only be FAQ'd if the rule in the army book is unclear or no longer mechanically functions. Speaking purely theoretically ( ) the situation above with Beast Herds does not require an FAQ – the rules for Beast Herds would remain as mechanically clear as they are now, regardless of whether rank bonus changes or not.

3. Other changes not made – although we feel there may be other issues that need to be addressed with Warhammer in terms of army balance (different weapon types, for example), the best place to address this is in army books with points values rather than layering on additional rules that add further complication to the game without necessarily adding anything to the system generally.

Cheers, I'm reading some of the speculation/ anticpation with interest and I'm really looking forward to see what people make of the new Warhammer.

Cheers,

GAV

Units
- Characters & command can now go anywhere in the front rank.

Movement
- Charge/flee direction has been clarified properly. Basically draw a line between the units and charge/flee along that line perpendicular to the battle line. Units still flee from the largest unit and measure all pursuit from the line of skirmish. Flee straight back through friends if necessary. As a result, there is a new panic test for being fled through by friendly troops. Units within 6 inches still test if a unit breaks or is destroyed.

- Re-direct is only along the path of charge. A unit can redirect into the first unit along the path of that charge. The path is determined as if the charged unit had not fled and the charger was maximizing both the charger and the charged unit.

- Skirmishers can now be march blocked. Apparently, the rule that lets skirmishers always march has simply been removed in the new rulebook.

- When charging you must maximise the number of enemy models in base contact, as well as your own. In order do this, once a charge is determined to be successful, the charged unit may move more than it's maximum movement allowance to accomplish the maximization of models.

Shooting
-A unit may target any model within LOS, regardless of its proximity to friendly units, so being within 5 inches of a friendly unit does not make a single model immune to targeting.

Combat
- To get a rank bonus, a unit must be 5 models wide, rather than the current 4. This only applies to roughly man-sized units and cavalry-based units.

- Each combat is worked out in full, along with any break tests, flee, and pursuit moves before the next combat is worked out. The player who's turn it decides the order of combat.
- A unit overrunning into an unengaged enemy unit will not fight a round of combat that turn unless the unit is engaged by another enemy unit and has not fought a round of combat. Otherwise, combat will occur in the next round of combat and the overrunning unit will count as charging.
- You can only do this once per unit per turn, so no line destroying overruns with an uber unit. In other words, no unit my actually fight more than one round of combat per turn.
-If you are engaged in only one side / rear and win the combat, all models may turn to face the enemy. This is considered a permanent change of formation. Future combat results will be calculated from this new formation.
- The +1 Combat Result bonus for having a Battle Standard now stacks with the +1 CR bonus for a unit standard, thus a unit with both would now get +2 CR rather than just +1. In multiple unit combats, each unit may count its battle standard for combat results.
- A unit rolling a double 1 for their break test will now apparently always pass the test, regardless of modifiers. This is effective even vs. autobreak.

- Units may no longer lap around. However units may Expand Frontage as per the 6th edition rules if there is room. This is a permanent formation change.

- In all cases of fleeing from enemy units, units flee directly away from the largest enemy unit. A unit forced to flee through an enemy unit is automatically destroyed, even if only clipping the enemy unit. Provided the enemy unit has a Unit Strength of 5 or more. If the fleeing unit would end its movement in the same location as the enemy unit, the fleeing unit is moved one inch beyond the enemy unit.

Psychology
- Fleeing units flee through friendly units, though units fled through will have to take a Panic test. If the fleeing unit would end its movement in the same location as the unit, the fleeing unit is moved beyond the unit.
- An unengaged unit that fails a Stupidity test will now halt at the table edge where it would previously have moved off.
- The ranges of the psychology tests have been standardised to 6".

Weapons
- The "parry" rule is effective only vs. units to the front.
- Great weapons only add +1 Strength when the user is mounted. When the user is on foot it's +2 Strength as it is now. This rule applies to Questing Knights, but White Wolf Knights remain as now.
- Pistols can not be fired in close combat anymore. If you have a brace of pistols you get Multiple shots x2 with a minus 1 to hit and they count as two close combat weapons.

Orcs are fighty and don't get all the Gobbo 2 for 1 stuff. Gobbo's get all the 2 for 1 stuff.

Black Orcs are special but you MUST take one for each BO character. A nice way to limit the characters by using up special slots! BO get special armed to da teef rule with both choppa's & GW's.

Bicker is now either 1 or 6. And if you fail you stand still - not charge some other poor green sod. So more chance to waagh!.

Also get a super-waagh! as a start of turn option. Cannot be stopped. Each unit gets a Waagh! roll with various additions, so more likely to roll a 6 (or more) and get a waagh! off.

Choppa's can used used with HW&S option and retain bonus with 2 choppa's.

Lots of new magic toys, surprisingly based on choppa's

Nope! Very clean: Psych tests are for out of combat, break tests are for in combat.

[Heavy]

Skummade igenom det hela.. Ser ju faktiskt väldigt bra ut för en gngs skull

[emil]

Jodå, jag é själv fylld av optimism inför den nya boken, och det é inte ofta! (Att jag é fylld av optimism vill säga...)

Det här é jag ngt skeptisk till dock:
"- In all cases of fleeing from enemy units, units flee directly away from the largest enemy unit. A unit forced to flee through an enemy unit is automatically destroyed, even if only clipping the enemy unit. Provided the enemy unit has a Unit Strength of 5 or more. If the fleeing unit would end its movement in the same location as the enemy unit, the fleeing unit is moved one inch beyond the enemy unit."

Man kan göra en überhård mördarenhet, peka på lede fi å charga, han skiter knäck å flyr in i ngt jättemuppigt som slår ihjäl en enhet för 500p eller nåt. Ex: 5 Harpies för 65p, som flugit bakom eller nåt...

Men... Reglerna som helhet kanske förebygger liknande muppiga scenarion, vem vet? Jag har själv inte läst reglerna än iaf.

[Heavy]

Man kan göra en überhård mördarenhet, peka på lede fi å charga, han skiter knäck å flyr in i ngt jättemuppigt som slår ihjäl en enhet för 500p eller nåt. Ex: 5 Harpies för 65p, som flugit bakom eller nåt...

Men var det inte så här det funkade i 4th ed ? Har för mig att jag spelat med det, fast vi kanske hus-reglade ihop det..

Tycker dock det verkar ganska vettigt att verkligen ha en defenitiv regel om vart man flyr när man flyr, det är ju en av tjafs-grejorna i spelet just nu och bygger en hel del på subjektivitet. Sen går det säkert att kobolda ihop listor som blir "för" bra, bara man har billiga skirmishers i sin bok..  Men iofs, skirmishers går ju att march-blocka

Billiga flyers lär man ju dock se en hel del av i fortsättningen..

[Martin Larsson]

Magi delen är väldigt sund och vettig, powerdicegenerators is no more, vilket är skitbra enligt mig. Det blir märkbart sämre att fielda en all wizard arme :!: Detta stod dessutom med i den typ handout på vad spelet kommer innehålla som vi fick till butiken...

Däremot vet jag inte om jag gillar 5 models wide när det gäller cav(särskit inte om bretonians får behålla sina 3), men en sak är säker, chaos warriors blev ÄNNU sämre med den regeln :evil:

Men i övrigt känns det ganska bra. Emils exempel är iofs sant, men det betyder ju att man behöver ta hand om flyers och skirmishers fortare. Det ta kräver nog att man anpassar sig lite mer efter det, vilket nog öppnar spelet lite, samt att vissa enheter som(som per automatik när man ens tittar på dem) är dyra kanske har lite mer att hämta mot mög armeer.
Gillar det nya panic testet stenhårt, det ska skapa en del kaos om man flyr(iaf mer än det gjorde innan)...

Ska återkomma när man kunnat lägga vantarna på en själv, tror dock att det kan dröja ett tag, tror dom vill hålla lite på det

[emil]

Hittade en bra tråd med alla förändringar. Inte så mycket eg, så Warhammer 7 ed é eg Warhammer 6.1 enligt ngt skeptiska röster.  

WARHAMMER 7TH EDITION RULEBOOK
RECORD OF RULES CHANGES - COMPLETE

In general, all rules text has been simplified where it was felt that it was unclear or overwritten. Some diagrams have been modified for extra clarity and new ones have been added where necessary.
Compatibility with existing army books was paramount throughout the entire process and has been 99% achieved!

The main changes are:

• Movement:

1. Charging units must now move to bring as many models as possible into the ensuing fight (from both their side and the enemy's). This prevents exploitation with "clipping" charges.
2. Clarified how to move fleeing and pursuing units. Essentially: pivot the unit on the spot to face the direction it's going to move towards, and then move it the distance rolled.
3. Clarified charge re-direction. Units hit enemies other than the ones they charged only if the new target is in their way as they charge after the fleeing intended target.
4. Re-worded the Change Formation manoeuvre so that it refers to the width of the unit's frontage and not its ranks.
5. Killed the Snaking formation, as it is an obsolete rule that has long lost its reason to exist due to the newer rules for skirmishers and fast cavalry.
6. Clarified that units cannot voluntarily move off the battlefield unless specified in the scenario that is being played.

• Shooting:

7. A unit can now shoot only against one enemy unit and not multiple enemy units in any case, no exceptions.

• Magic:

8. Power dice generated by wizards can be used only by the wizards that generated them and not by other wizards in the army. The dice in the pool remain available to all wizards.
9. The Miscast Table itself is a lot nastier and the wizards can actually die from a Miscast, with rather spectacular pyrotechnic effects.
10. Spells in the Magic Lores have been reviewed in an attempt to make the least used Lores more appealing and tone down the ones that are a bit too good.
11. The Enchanted Shield cannot be combined with magic armour.
12. Reading a dispel scroll does not terminate the dispelling wizard's Remains in play spells anymore.


• Combat:

13. Combat Phase sequence changed. The player whose turn it is picks combats in turn and each combat is completely resolved, including fleeing and pursuing, before passing onto the next. This clarifies the sequence in which fights, fleeing and pursuing happen. This change has several repercussions, such as allowing units to fight twice in a combat phase if they pursue into an existing combat that has not been solved yet during that phase (fight, win, pursue/overrun into another combat, fight again). Units, however, are limited to one pursue/overrun per turn only.
14. Fleeing is now always done directly away from the cause first, and then towards the closest table edge in following turns. Fleeing troops can move through friends (causing Panic), but are destroyed if they have to flee through enemies (of Unit Strength 5+) or impassable terrain. This solves the complex issue of the movement's direction of fleeing and pursuing units.
15. The number of models needed to receive a Rank bonus in combat is now 5!
16. Killed the "Lapping Round" manoeuvre, but allowed winning units to perform a turn or change formation manoeuvre in combat, in order to bring more models into the fray.
17. Allowed the +1 combat res. bonus of the Battle Standard to stack on top of the +1 for units' banners.
18. Added the Insane Courage rule: rolling snake eyes on a break test means the test is automatically passed, regardless of modifiers. This can even override auto-break from Fear-causing enemies!
19. Defended obstacles have been toned down. Units attacking over an obstacle simply lose the charging bonuses.
20. Clarified the rules for units that re-enter the battle after pursuing enemies off the table.

• Psychology:

21. Troops engaged in close combat do not take Psychology tests!
22. In order to cause Panic, friendly units fleeing/wiped out must have Unit strength 5+.
23. Unified all Panic ranges to 6".
24. Removed the Panic test for fleeing friends within 4" at the beginning of the turn (it has effectively been replaced by the Panic test for friends fleeing through the unit).
25. Immune to Psychology gives immunity only to Panic/Fear/Terror, allowing positive psychological effects to affect the unit.
26. Unbreakable has now a Swarm box-out, which makes swarms suffer extra wounds when losing a fight, much in the same way as Undead.
27. Use combined Unit Strength of all units defeated in a fight against the combined Unit Strength of all fear-causing units on the winning side to determine if they are outnumbered by fear-causing enemies.
28. Stupidity does not affect units in close combat.

• War machines:

29. War machines without a crew are immediately destroyed by enemies in base contact with them.
30. Cannon balls hit all models they go through when hitting skirmishers or war machines and their crew.
31. Grapeshot uses the flame template, has variable Strength (Artillery dice) and causes D3 wounds.

• Weapons:

32. Great weapons confer only a +1 Strength bonus to mounted models.
33. Pistols simply count as hand weapons in close combat. If a model carries two+ pistols, it has the 2xMultiple shots rule.
34. Hand weapon+shield extra pip of armour applies only when fighting to the front and not to the flanks/rear.

• Skirmishers:

35. They cannot march if enemy is within 8" (this rule now applies across all units, no exceptions).
36. They get a single change of direction during the charge.
37. Added a section about skirmishing units of monsters and handlers.

• Monsters/chariots:

38. They get only one pivot during a charge.
39. Chariots can choose to move through difficult terrain and obstacles (but still suffer damage).

• Miscellaneous rules:

40. Regeneration is now a simple save working exactly like a ward save, except that it can be taken after ward saves (!) and is cancelled by flaming attacks.
41. "Always Strike First" has been standardised as a Special Rule.
42. Deleted the rule protecting Characters within 5" of friendly units. If not inside a friendly unit, characters are a unit of their own and can therefore be targeted normally!
43. Characters inside a friendly unit cannot be targeted by missile fire (and get 'Look out sir' if the unit is 5 or more models strong). This rule does not apply if they have Unit strength 5 or more. This allows characters mounted on multi-wound steeds (like Archaon, Tyrion etc.) to join friendly units without being picked out by enemy fire!
44. Buildings. Complete new rules for moving and fighting in buildings, including a spread on Special features (funky fantasy terrain!).
45. Clarified interaction of flying movement and terrain.
46. Magic resistance is passed from a character to the unit it joins and vice-versa.
47. Clarified rules for capturing Battle Standards.
48. Half VPs are now scored for units reduced to half strength or less, and not below half strength. The same is true of characters (so wounded Heroes yield half their cost in VPs!).
49. Units with Unit strength of less than 5 cannot capture table quarters, nor can they deny them.
50. Champion banners musicians and characters all equally have to be in the first rank (players are free to decide who goes at the back if there's no space).
51. Clarified that fleeing generals and battle standards lose their abilities.
52. Clarified character-unit psychology interaction.

• Scenarios:

53. All scenarios have been either deleted or moved to the Hobby section. The rules section has now a "Starting the game" sequence that effectively explains the Pitched Battle scenario.
54. The rules for deploying terrain have been expanded, creating a terrain-set-up pre-game phase.
55. The player winning the roll-off at the beginning of the game gets to choose the table side but also has to start deploying, balancing out the importance of the initial roll.

[Clifford]

Ujuj, för min del gjorde det Skaven avsevärt sämtre. Kunde inte se något som var bättre ur en råttas ögon iallafall...

[emil]

Generellt sett påverkas alla, fair&square, men för skadisar så finns det helt klart stora fördelar också:
15. The number of models needed to receive a Rank bonus in combat is now 5!
18. Added the Insane Courage rule: rolling snake eyes on a break test means the test is automatically passed, regardless of modifiers. This can even override auto-break from Fear-causing enemies!
21. Troops engaged in close combat do not take Psychology tests!
27. Use combined Unit Strength of all units defeated in a fight against the combined Unit Strength of all fear-causing units on the winning side to determine if they are outnumbered by fear-causing enemies.

...och det finns mer... Så jag tycker inte speciellt synd om en av dom mer obalanserade arméerna. Men notera också att det kommer givetvis nya arméböcker, även om syftet med 7th ed var att dom gamla skulle funka.

[Robin]

Skavens blev rejält mycket sämre, det drabbar dock ingen fattig .

VC fick ju ganska mycket däng med sämre fear pga Insane Courage och vettiga fearregler där man räknar alla inblandade enheters US mot varandra istället för all fear causing US mot varje motståndareenhet individuellt . Dessutom är det skitfarligt att trolla nu, vilket inte är så lustigt för VC.

Brets kom väl mest lindrigt undan, de nya pursuit och redirection-reglerna är inte så lustigt för en smal lans, men å andra sidan inget jättefarligt heller. Pegasus Knights får man inte -1 när man försöker skjuta på längre (skirmishers med större baser än 25x25mm) men kommer att vara svinbra på att utnyttja cross-fire regeln.

Lizardmen's skirmishers går att march-blocka. Huzzah!

Det var väl fab4, alla blir nerfade en del, men å andra sidan blir alla andra ganska nerfade med....

[emil]

VC fick mest stryk ja, man kan ju föreställa sig hur roligt det é när vampyrlården trollar ihjäl sig på turn 1. :lol: Brettonians kommer man lära sig att hata ganska snart misstänker jag. Dom har så gott som inga nackdelar, inga värda att nämna iaf. Men jag hoppas på nya ABs snart så kan det nog också lösa sig, dvärgarna blev ju riktigt trevliga till slut.

Efter Orchernas AB blir det Empire va? Sedan då, borde vara Dark Elvis/Hög Elvis?

*Edit* En regel jag avskyr redan nu:
31. Grapeshot uses the flame template, has variable Strength (Artillery dice) and causes D3 wounds.

Att använda Templates öht är bara av ondo, ett odefinierat antal modeller, som varken du eller din motståndare så gott som ALDRIG kommer vara överens om innerst inne. Det har gått till den grad att jag alltid låter motståndaren spekulera ihop antal träffar. Säger han/hon 1-100 träffar på min enhet av högst 20 så fine, även om det är helt orimlig mängd med träffar. Det funkade alldeles utmärkt med en artillery die som innan, el. alt. ett antal D6:or. Idiotiskt av GWs designers. *mummel*

[Robin]

På ytan verkar Brets inte fått så mycket däng, särskilt inte med 5-wide för rankbonus regeln, som gör att man kan få in fulla attacker från 2 lansar på alla inf-enheter i spelet.

Fast å andra sidan så tror jag att deras smala front kommer att vara mindre bra när det gäller redirects och overruns, som nog kommer att påverka spelet mer än man tror. Den som lever får se.

[emil]

Nu é 7th ed ute!  

[emil]

Just back from Warhammer World, where they are holding the release party for WFB.

The following information has come DIRECTLY from Gav Thorpe, Alessio Cavatore and Jervis Johnson, and was given at a seminar held this morning, and over a coffee first thing this morning!

Rulebook - as most of you will have now noticed, the rulebook does not include rules for sieges or skirmishes. This is because of plans to release COD type expansions - the first of which will be SIEGE, followed by NAVAL BATTLES and also, a skirmish level expansion book. There will be new models for each race to tie in with the expansions, with FW assisting with large scale models (ships?)

Black Orks are to get new plastic minis next year - Q1 or 2. They were not ready for the main release.

All races will receive a Plastic lord kit similar to the Ork Warboss as the army books are released.

Next books to be worked on are:

Empire
Vampire Counts
Dark Elves
Tomb Kings
Chaos.

Gav would 'like' to see the Chaos book being one large volume, as most players spoken to by the dev. team tend to pick and choose from the two volumes.

All army books will have at least 30% more background.

The Warhammer timeline is now FIXED. There will be no more Storm of Chaos type events where the timeline will advance - this is warhammer as it will be for the foreseeable future (at least 5 years).

The tone of the game is to stay 'dark gothic'. There will be no 'cartooning' of the armies - in Gavs words, 'Orks fighty, Gobbos tricksy' - the new rules reflect the double 'ardness of Orks.

Dogs of War are to get their own army book / expansion 'sometime in the next five years'. To assist this, army will have the DOW option removed as the books are released.

There is to be an archive section added to the GW website for characters who 'fail the cut' in the new army books along with any esoteric bits n bobs they cant find a home for.

There will be a comprehensive Q&A uploaded Next Saturday to cover the new rules.

No Army should be considered 'nerfed' within the new rules - as far as Alessio could tell, there are only two magic items and one rule affected by the clarifications. (brettonian dispel, beastman ranking and one I cant remember!)

The Gamers Edition offer is to become a direct sales 'stocked' item ongoing, and they are looking at a similiar offer for 40K.

Rather than remaking all old metal models into plastic, Gav wants to look at new or re-released options - ie. Spider Riders (no - forest gobbos are not coming back with specific rules!)

http://home1.stofanet.dk/gotthardt/
http://warhammer.uk.games-workshop.com/gaming/reference_sheet/default.htm

[Robin]

Listan på armélistor kan vara fel, andra säger att det är High Elves och inte Dark elves som det jobbas på (finns i samma tråd på Warseer).

Klart är ju i alla fall att O&G kommer strax, och Empire till vinter eller så.

[xDantex]

att man dör atomatiskt om man flyr genom en fiende gör visserligen att ens 500p enhet kan dö av 5 gobblins men å andra sidan så gör det ju också att folk inte väljer att fly med sina enheter hela jäkla tiden.

som det var innan så överanvändes det innan till max. kort sagt.... har du lagt ner 500p på en enhet och den av någon anledning flyr förtjänar den fasiken att dö : :twisted: